Poetry fight!
Okay, time to break out those black turtlenecks, boys. Mark, as usual your thoughts are perceptive and, well, thoughtful. However, I must say that, for one vato, you're fulla shit (and where else are you going to hear anyone quote Tommy Chong as a lead-in for a poetry discussion?). That's interesting about the Magi being "the first Christians" however, I'm not sure I buy it. In any event, if they were, I doubt Eliot knew. For the narrarator of the poem to express this thought
We returned to our places, these Kingdoms,
But no longer at ease here, in the old dispensation,
With an alien people clutching their gods.
I should be glad of another death.
to me shows that he is not a Christian, but saw something in Bethlehem that convinced him of the divinity of Baby Jesus anyway. Like Hemingway, he is too much a product of his time and too set in his ways to change. However, what he has seen has shaken him, but the tone of this poem is too mournful at the end, especially the death wish expressed on the final line, for me to believe that the narrarator has embraced the faith and been born again. He is a wise man, a man of science (I read once that the Magi were the astronomers of their time) and he had probably sensed the changes in the air leading up to Christ's birth. What he bore witness to in Bethlehem convinced him that Christ was to be the catalyst for those changes. He sees his world changing and, at the end of his life, recognizes that his time and that of his kind (alien people clutching their gods) is almost at an end.
Many people think Eliot wrote "Magi" as an allegory about his own spiritual journey and rebirth, and I wouldn't argue with that. The line "alien people clutching their gods" can just as easily symbolize London high society-types who shun faith in the almighty in favor of reason and secularism as it can the more literal translation. But hey, I'm a literal guy and that's how I choose to read this poem.
Mark, Eliot became a Christian later in life (even though he was American born, he lived in England and became an Anglican) and "Journey of the Magi" was written after then. Considering your own spiritual journey, I can see why you read the poem that way.
Changing the subject now . . .
Robbie, last night I was watching ESPN Classic and saw the 1982 football matchup between Notre Dame and Michigan. If you recall, this was when the Fighting Irish's program was at a low ebb and they were being coached by ex-high school coach Gerry Faust. Anyway, the Irish were kicking the hell out of Michigan and their main horse was none other than Larry Moriarity. Remember him?
Mikey, great to hear from you! You'll be interested to know that I got 2 DVD's for Christmas. One, Napoleon Dynamite (of course) and also (drum roll) Wild at Heart. Can you believe they just got around to releasing that on DVD? I mean, fer crying out loud, the fucking thing's only 14 years old, what's the hurry? Anyway, we watched it the other night after the girls went to bed and, I have to tell you, it was just about the cutest thing I've ever seen.
Hope everyone has a happy and safe New Year!
We returned to our places, these Kingdoms,
But no longer at ease here, in the old dispensation,
With an alien people clutching their gods.
I should be glad of another death.
to me shows that he is not a Christian, but saw something in Bethlehem that convinced him of the divinity of Baby Jesus anyway. Like Hemingway, he is too much a product of his time and too set in his ways to change. However, what he has seen has shaken him, but the tone of this poem is too mournful at the end, especially the death wish expressed on the final line, for me to believe that the narrarator has embraced the faith and been born again. He is a wise man, a man of science (I read once that the Magi were the astronomers of their time) and he had probably sensed the changes in the air leading up to Christ's birth. What he bore witness to in Bethlehem convinced him that Christ was to be the catalyst for those changes. He sees his world changing and, at the end of his life, recognizes that his time and that of his kind (alien people clutching their gods) is almost at an end.
Many people think Eliot wrote "Magi" as an allegory about his own spiritual journey and rebirth, and I wouldn't argue with that. The line "alien people clutching their gods" can just as easily symbolize London high society-types who shun faith in the almighty in favor of reason and secularism as it can the more literal translation. But hey, I'm a literal guy and that's how I choose to read this poem.
Mark, Eliot became a Christian later in life (even though he was American born, he lived in England and became an Anglican) and "Journey of the Magi" was written after then. Considering your own spiritual journey, I can see why you read the poem that way.
Changing the subject now . . .
Robbie, last night I was watching ESPN Classic and saw the 1982 football matchup between Notre Dame and Michigan. If you recall, this was when the Fighting Irish's program was at a low ebb and they were being coached by ex-high school coach Gerry Faust. Anyway, the Irish were kicking the hell out of Michigan and their main horse was none other than Larry Moriarity. Remember him?
Mikey, great to hear from you! You'll be interested to know that I got 2 DVD's for Christmas. One, Napoleon Dynamite (of course) and also (drum roll) Wild at Heart. Can you believe they just got around to releasing that on DVD? I mean, fer crying out loud, the fucking thing's only 14 years old, what's the hurry? Anyway, we watched it the other night after the girls went to bed and, I have to tell you, it was just about the cutest thing I've ever seen.
Hope everyone has a happy and safe New Year!
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